The Influential Advisor

073: Worry Free Wealth | How Ancient Wisdom Can Transform Your Financial Future with Shuey Wyne

• Paul G. McManus

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In this podcast episode, I welcome  I welcome Shuey Wyne, V.P. Wealth Advisor at RVW Wealth and author of the Amazon bestseller Worry-Free Wealth. Shuey offers a unique take on wealth management, combining timeless wisdom with evidence-based investing.

We explore his unconventional path from rabbinical studies to managing over $1.6 billion in assets and discuss key principles for avoiding financial mistakes, delegating effectively, and building long-term wealth security.

Shuey’s Journey: From Rabbi to Wealth Advisor

  • Early Influences: Raised in a rabbinic household, Shuey was deeply involved in religious education and leadership, following in his father’s footsteps.
  • Ordination & Community Leadership: He received his rabbinical ordination and served as an associate rabbi before transitioning to finance.
  • Discovering His Calling: Through counseling, he realized that financial insecurity was a major source of stress for people, leading him to pivot into wealth management.
  • Joining RVW Wealth: Now a senior advisor, he helps clients navigate financial planning with a focus on achieving peace of mind.

The Wealth Pyramid: A Blueprint for Financial Security

  • Peace of Mind Foundation: Covering essentials like insurance, estate planning, and asset protection.
  • Core Nest Egg: A diversified approach incorporating equities, real estate, private credit, and bonds to preserve and grow wealth.
  • Speculative Investments: Identifying high-risk opportunities and ensuring they complement, rather than endanger, overall financial security.

Biggest Financial Mistakes & How to Avoid Them

  • Divorce: The single largest financial disruptor, often leading to long-term financial setbacks.
  • Underinsurance: Many professionals and business owners are inadequately insured, exposing themselves to unnecessary financial risk.
  • Speculative Investing: Without a strong financial foundation, risky investments can lead to significant losses.

What to Look for in a Wealth Advisor

  • Pure Fiduciary Duty: Advisors should act in their clients’ best interests 100% of the time.
  • Evidence-Based Investing: A data-driven approach to financial decision-making, rather than speculation.
  • Transparent Compensation: Understanding all fees, including advisory, investment, and tax costs, is essential.

About our guest: Shuey Wyne, V.P. Wealth Advisor at RVW Wealth and author of the Amazon bestseller Worry-Free Wealth.

You can learn more about his work:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shuey-wyne-42b546230/

https://rvwwealth.com/

About Your Host:  Paul G. McManus is an accomplished author and expert in helping financial professionals grow their businesses. With over eight years of experience working exclusively with financial professionals, Paul has helped his clients generate tens of millions of dollars in fees and commissions.

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Speaker 1:

If you're like most successful professionals and business owners, you probably wondered if there's more to managing wealth than just chasing returns. What if the secret to financial confidence isn't found in complex strategies, but in a deeper understanding of what brings true peace of mind? Our guest today brings a fascinating and unconventional perspective to this question. Shuey Wine has not only built a successful career helping to manage over $1.6 billion in assets at RVW Wealth, but he brings something truly unique to the table his background as an ordained rabbi and years of experience counseling people through life's most challenging moments. In his new Amazon bestseller, worry-free Wealth, shuey challenges the traditional notion that successful investing is all about complex strategies and chasing returns. Instead, he weaves together timeless wisdom from his rabbinical training with evidence-based investing principles to show us how to achieve what he calls worry-free wealth, something that goes far beyond just portfolio performance. Welcome, shuey. How are you doing today?

Speaker 2:

Doing really, really well. Paul, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, my pleasure. It's good to see you, so I've been looking forward to our conversation today. First and foremost, congratulations on the new book and congratulations on hitting Amazon bestseller status. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

Yes, Thank you. It feels good to hear that I actually did not anticipate initially the book taking off and having as much of an impact as thank God it's had. But yeah, it's really exciting and just the broad reach it really seems to be getting some positive feedback.

Speaker 1:

Very cool Today's interview. We'll deep dive a little bit into the book and your background and all those good things. But before we get into the book I'd love just to ask you a little bit about your own backstory and who you are and how did you go from where you started to where you are today.

Speaker 2:

Sure, absolutely Pretty unconventional, I guess, for a wealth manager. I was born and raised in Vegas in the family of a really rabbinic household, my father and he's still going strong and well, god bless him. He was very, very influential in building the Las Vegas Jewish community. In the Jewish and more of the Orthodox world it's rapidly like wildfire growing and my dad has really been at the forefront of that and his base is. He's a pulpit rabbi and he's an excellent public speaker. So I grew up in that path and that educational system and I was really taking his footsteps and following his footsteps. It was almost the expectation for years that I was going to follow after him and be a rabbi myself, and he really positioned me well to do that. And as the years evolved I had the merit to learn and study and grow from tremendous role models in that space Fast forward many years.

Speaker 2:

I ultimately did receive my official rabbinical ordination, which was a very vigorous process and very in-depth Talmudic studies and Jewish law, and then I came back and I was part of the family business, so to speak, the synagogue that my father had founded and really built out, and many organizations have really sprouted out from that. I began working alongside him as associate rabbi and was doing that and really enjoyed that. Him as associate rabbi and was doing that and really enjoyed that. And then fast forward many years later. Right now, as I got more into the business world, I am a senior wealth advisor at a wealth management firm called RVW Wealth. We manage about 1.6 billion in assets collectively. We do private wealth management. We do company-wide 401k plans. So that is a little bit of a snapshot of where I came from and where I'm at today.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. I can imagine those are two pretty different worlds.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I would think so, and on the surface it seems that way. But what I have learned and what I'm learning more and more as I learn every day, they're very, very intertwined, and I feel that not only the thinking and the process behind the rabbinical training, not only was it preventing me from being more knowledgeable and more of I try when my goal is to be an expert in the wealth management space, but it really has enabled and propelled me to be even more impactful and help clients in a deeper and meaningful way.

Speaker 1:

I'm curious how so.

Speaker 2:

Great question. A couple of things come to mind. The great rabbis that I try to are very focused on specifics, on details. Spirituality is not just meant to be a generic mindset, it's very action oriented, it's very into the specifics, the details. So as a wealth manager, I try and I aspire not just to have the mindset of a wealth advisor and an asset manager, financial planner, but to really focus on the specifics, the portfolio construction, the costs, the taxes. And when I came into the industry I thought that was expected, I thought that was normal and that was part of the job.

Speaker 2:

But what I've come to see is that a lot of times in this business your average financial advisor can really be just a salesman of sorts and various products and not necessarily aligning what they're doing with the specific, detailed goals and aspirations and hopes and fears, particular clients that they're working with.

Speaker 2:

So I think the rabbinical component really conditioned me to do that Also, just to be able to have the proper empathy. When you're dealing with people's money, it is the most absolute, private, sacred component in their life and there's so many nuances and it's not just about the numbers, it's really about their feelings and their goals and their comfort and what we call actually the tagline of our firm is RVW Wealth, because peace of mind is everything Really the goal and that's really a core message of the book. So we don't view ourselves in the money management business today. We really view ourselves in the sleep business, the peace of mind business. It's through designing a portfolio that addresses those particular needs and really fulfilling and being having the care, the proper care, that an excellent rabbi does have. So I would say those two components very specificity oriented, as well as having the empathy and the care.

Speaker 1:

It sounds like you actually did become a rabbi, but just in a different format. Because you're a counselor, your clients come to you, they trust you, you give them feedback and counsel and you empathy and all these good things, and so they seem very intertwined. Or they can be.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly right and I talk about this in the book. How the transition really took place is I always had this innate desire to really be influential in the most intimate setting of people's lives, and the way how I thought that was going to manifest itself is in people's religiosity, in their practice, in their spiritual awakening. But as I began in the rabbinate and I would speak and I would give talks and I would give classes and recordings and lectures, but I would also meet a lot one-on-one in a counseling format, and what I discovered, actually pretty quickly, is that the root, the number one primary concern that is the core of a lot of worry and stress and heartache in people's personal lives, in their professional lives, is money, is the financial security or the lack thereof. And what I realized is a rabbi of mine, rabbi Berkowitz, who I mentioned in the book, always used to say many times that people's primary worry is about money.

Speaker 2:

So that kind of transitioned myself into realizing that maybe my calling is to really focus in on providing that financial security, that peace of mind, and to take away the worry. It's actually a Talmudic teaching that the more sets a person has, the more worry they have. The Hebrew words are marben nechassim marbed daiga, which means the more possessions material possessions that a person owns, naturally, the more worry and concern they will have. So it's a paradox that a lot of times we feel that successful professionals, they're the ones who have made it and they have peace and tranquility, when really the opposite, a lot of times, is true they're the people who are most concerned and are most anxiety ridden, and that's what I wake up with enthusiasm and passion every single day to be able to really provide that value in their lives, that peace of mind.

Speaker 1:

So that's a perfect transition into, I think, the title of the book, which is Worry-Free Wealth.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly, worry-free.

Speaker 1:

Wealth, worry-free Wealth. And so what inspired you to take action? Take the knowledge that you've accumulated over years, and if not decades, both from your past career and current career. Take the knowledge that you've accumulated over years, and if not decades, both from your past career and current career, and to put that into book format.

Speaker 2:

So great question. I always thought, especially when I was much younger, that successful businessmen and businesswomen understood and really mastered fundamental principles in economics, whether it's interest rates, the stock market, fixed income, real estate, private credit, private equity. I thought that's just part of it. If you're successful and you've built a successful career and you've made it to the top of the ladder, you're informed. And what I realized is and it makes sense that people are so busy, people are struggling, so many obligations Forget about in their personal life.

Speaker 2:

So, business owners, it's not a given that these fundamental principles are really clear. And especially, I found, as I began to study this more and more, we aren't taught this in school. I found, as I began to study this more and more, we aren't taught this in school, unless a person really proactively seeks this knowledge. They just go on life and they could make a lot of money but don't necessarily know what to do with it. And then all the real problem is that even the books and the literature out there One book that I happen to be a terrific fan of this is my Bible, so to speak is Stocks for the Long Run by Jeremy Siegel.

Speaker 1:

That's a big. I'm just noticing right now that that's a very big and thick book.

Speaker 2:

Yes, very big, very thick textbook and although the content is fantastic and a lot of the evidence-based investing that we implement into our practice is based on data like this, but for the average and even successful consumer who's got time and who's got the headspace to sit down and talk to them all the time. It's too intimidating Men, women, mothers, fathers. It's just, it's too much.

Speaker 1:

That's a huge book and I'm sure there's a lot of wisdom in it. I'm a business owner, but I don sure there's a lot of wisdom in it. I'm a business owner but I don't know that I have the time or inclination to sit down and read that book. I would rather have someone like you read the book and then tell me what I need to know.

Speaker 2:

Exactly right and busy professionals and successful entrepreneurs. They're making a lot of money, but the reason why they're making a lot of money is because they're immersed in their expertise. So what I set out as a goal of mine and there were many junctures throughout the process of writing the book that I was making a concerted effort how do I simplify this and simplify it even more and that was a lot of fine tuning, but that was really my motive to write the book to be able to deliver to the successful in the most ideal way of managing, preserving and growing their wealth.

Speaker 1:

You mentioned business owners, entrepreneurs and folks that have worked at a company maybe they're a professional, an executive, et cetera. I can imagine that the business owner, entrepreneur and the professional have some similar challenges, but they might also have different challenges. What's your experience been in terms of working with those two sets of groups In my experience.

Speaker 2:

There are really two phases of that. Number one is the understanding that the most successful business owners and even professionals who have built their way up in a company and have accumulated a lot of wealth, they understand the power of delegation. They understand the importance of being able to become the best at what you would like to do and what you want to put out, and to be able to optimize your time and work much smarter rather than harder, and I think Warren Buffett says it the best. A number of years ago and it really resonated with me, it was actually during I believe it was during COVID in the Berkshire Hathaway shareholders conference in Omaha it was this 11, 12-year-old girl who asked Warren Buffett. She said we're in very auspicious times volatile stock market, there's wars in the world, interest rates are rising, inflation is really bad. What would be the one stock that you, mr Buffett, would be confident in investing Without even blinking an eye? He responded better than the one stock. The best investment you can make is in yourself. That means is whether you're a doctor, you're a lawyer, you're a singer, become the best at what you are doing.

Speaker 2:

Now business owners understand that, no matter what industry you're in. But then the problem is okay. So now you build all this wealth. What do you do with it? The understanding so to get back to your question of the challenges of that these business owners retirees they face is they're doing correctly managing their expertise, but managing their wealth is really something that they need to delegate to the experts. And number two is that, in an industry that is often very clouded with hidden fees and conflicts of interest and lack of fiduciary duty, and therefore this results in a lot of things that we don't want to be involved in, such as stock picking and market timing and excessive fees, that's really a challenge as well. Once you're past the first phase, that you have the awareness that you do need to delegate, this second phase is really being able to identify a professional that you can truly have worry-free wealth in a way that it's optimized and done in an ideal manner.

Speaker 1:

So one of the things you just mentioned was being a fiduciary. It's a term that I'm sure people have heard but maybe not always understand fully. What is a fiduciary? Why is that important?

Speaker 2:

Fantastic question, Paul. So a fiduciary means that your sole interest is the client's long-term financial well-being, and I'll say that your sole interest is their well-being, not yours. And what that means is that very often and I was surprised to learn this I thought it would be, especially coming from being a rabbi and aspiring to have integrity and doing what's kosher and not doing what's not kosher you would think that it would be required to do what's in. The financial advisory community is filled with commissions, kickbacks, incentives, all sorts of targets to reach. If you get a certain sales target and a proprietary product, you get a cruise in the summer. Team sought out to do was to be able to be wealth advisors in a conflict-free manner and to only be focused. Our interests are only aligned with the client's interests. We only get paid from the client and that by default, means that our alliance is only with the client because it's in the interest of their long-term financial well-being.

Speaker 1:

Here's a question I have for you In the years that you've been doing this, what's the biggest mistake you see people making with their money, or what are a few couple mistakes that you see? I'm sure that you see patterns of behaviors.

Speaker 2:

Great question. First thing that comes to mind is getting divorced.

Speaker 1:

Okay, there you go.

Speaker 2:

Way to lose half of what you got. And what people don't realize is to double your expenses. Very often we have situations that a household could be living comfortably as a married couple, but when they get divorced, forget about the legal fees that go into it. It's hard to get ahead, especially when there are multiple divorces. When you're turning in half many times, it's really hard to get ahead. Another two quick mistakes that come to mind is number one uninsured, not having adequate insurance or not having insurance at all, having that exposure. Can you give me an example of that? For example, people's auto insurance. Very often people will just take what's required minimally by the state, which could be anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000. And you God forbid rear-end someone or hit a cyclist unintentionally. That amount is eaten up very quickly. If someone gets injured, the first few hours in the operating ambulance going to the hospital, that underinsured exposure can wipe you out. That's our client's biggest risk in being underinsured. And, by the way, part of being a fiduciary is that's not even something that we really directly do.

Speaker 1:

I was about to ask you that. I mean, you're not in the auto insurance business.

Speaker 2:

Right, that's exactly right. But we are in the peace of mind business and, although it's not an income producing asset or a corn nest egg wealth asset, but it helps you sleep at night knowing that there's so much in this world that we can't control. I mean being underinsured, if that's something that we could control by having an umbrella policy or adequate life insurance, and to be properly in, have your estate plan in order, things of that nature is all part of the peace of mind component, even though we're not getting compensated on it and very often we're referring elsewhere what's in the client's best interest, not in our best interest.

Speaker 1:

Do you find that most people are under insured in one or more areas when they first come to you?

Speaker 2:

Yes for sure. Not having adequate umbrella insurance, which we had a client recently who someone was walking in front of their home with a dog and tripped on the curb right in front of the house that wasn't leveled. Exactly that resulted in a $2 million lawsuit. And these are things that are not covered just by your standard home insurance, particularly in our community. Like clockwork, at least once a year you have a situation that a breadwinner is lost and they did not have the proper or adequate life insurance, and community is now being relied upon to support whether it's a widow or children, and that is very common and it's really a campaign that our firm goes on. And it's again, it's not a moneymaker for us, but it's just basic peace of mind to know that if you love your family, we don't call it life insurance, we call it love insurance, right? If you love your spouse or your kids, it don't call it life insurance, we call it love insurance, right? If you love your spouse or your kids, it doesn't have to be both, just one of them.

Speaker 2:

And then other components as well. I want to say divorce, underinsured, and then when people are swinging for the fences, really when it comes to speculative investments. Buddy's new startup sets that up.

Speaker 1:

One of the concepts that you talk about in the book is the wealth pyramid. What is the wealth pyramid?

Speaker 2:

Sure, absolutely so. The wealth pyramid is really at the core of what we try educating our clients and prospective clients. The bottom of the pyramid is called peace of mind, and what that means are the assets which are not necessarily income producing or anticipated to appreciate over time, but these are peace of mind assets which help sleep at night. So, whether that's having adequate umbrella insurance, life insurance, current estate plan, not only having a will but having a living trust for asset protection, medical directives, things of this nature, which are not necessarily your core nest egg wealth, but it gives you peace of mind and it's so crucial, so critical to make sure you have. The second layer, which we spend most of our time in our portfolio design, is what we call core nest egg. Now, what makes up the core nest egg and this is very critical because what we find is a lot of times people do not have the awareness or people get confused what should be my core nest egg? The way we access core nest egg wealth is through diversified equities, synonymous with stocks. That's for growing value and growing dividends. Next one is real estate diversified, income-producing real estate. Third is private credit, which is an alternative asset class which is more income-generated, focused. And the fourth one is bonds, which is designed for safety and liquidity. These four components almost like an orchestra, different instruments which are geared towards accomplishing various objectives is what makes up the core nest egg and then the top of the wealth pyramid.

Speaker 2:

That's what we call speculative assets. And, paul, what's so critical about this is we're not opposed to speculative assets, but if you're in the stage of life and you could afford it, go for it, have fun. Just at least have the awareness of what's speculative and what's cornestag. Your buddy's opening a pizza shop down the block and you want to make an investment to have 15% equity Great, it's speculative.

Speaker 2:

It's not a business with a balance sheet with 200 years of data that we can focus on various attributes and factors and profitability and balance sheets and revenue. It's not. It's speculative. Right, cryptocurrency? We don't have the tools to determine what the inherent value of that asset is. It's actually they call it the greater fool theory that I'm going to pay $100,000 for this coin because I feel there's a greater fool out there that's going to pay more. That's not how business people evaluate assets. You want to try to strike it rich by going to the roulette table or doing one of these things great, but just at least know what asset class belongs in the appropriate bucket. And by having that clarity that really does help pave a path forward for a person to have that ultimate security and peace of mind.

Speaker 1:

Just out of curiosity, do you find that? How many people are in that speculative section without the proper two other layers? Do you find that's a lot of? In that speculative section without the proper two other layers, do you find that's a lot of people, or is that a few people?

Speaker 2:

I would say that is probably the most common mistakes that we see, especially highly educated professionals, whether it's physicians or attorneys. Once you make it big and you make money and your friend comes to you with a real estate multifamily syndication deal and promising a 24% APR over the next 18 months, that desire and rush to swing for the fences and to strike it rich and is obviously much more flashy that a lot of times we find people confusing and not having the awareness as to what's core nest egg and what's speculative and what you can afford and what objective each one is trying to meet.

Speaker 1:

I was watching a show on Netflix about athletes and I think it was with Dwayne Johnson and he was a financial advisor for athletes and just my takeaway from watching that was that they're getting bombarded with these essentially flashy investments that maybe they're good, maybe they're not, who knows. But to your point, if you don't have the core nest egg and the first layer, then that's just a whole lot of risk you're taking on.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly it. I think Warren Buffett says the best. He says proper investing is simple but not easy. It's simple but it's not easy because investing in a diversified equity portfolio or in, let's say, an institutionally managed non-traded REIT, a real estate investment trust or a proper fixed income bond ladder, it could be boring.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say that it's a little bit boring where you don't have the flash of the top layer.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's you feel like you're sitting on the sidelines while Nvidia is everyone's striking it rich and crypto and that's. But what we find really the most important thing and this is so much of what we do at our firm is, instead of pushing marketing and selling and products, it's really about educating our clients. It's we don't have a marketing team. We have an educational team able to really educate our professionals and our investors. It's all about not about what's exciting and flashy, but being prudent in saving your money, being diligent, making the appropriate pension contributions, being really focused on minimizing your costs Over time. That's something that we really stress, that upper investors understand that they do really well over time, but not all the time.

Speaker 1:

This has been great. I've enjoyed the conversation so far. So, just in the time that we have, is there any question that I haven't asked you that you think is important for this conversation?

Speaker 2:

I think it's really important for people to know what they should be looking in an advisor. Very often it's not something that we're taught in school and life gets busy and people have their personal obligations, their professional obligations. What should you be looking at? A wealth advisor? What we would say is number one.

Speaker 2:

These words you should be asking your prospective advisor are you always a pure fiduciary? And I talk about this in the book Are you always a pure fiduciary? And if the answer is no, if the answer is some sort of pause or newly discovered speech impediment, walk out right there, because it's so critical to understand and to know that all the time not some of the time all the time, every single decision is being made in your interest and not somebody else's. And that's really what gives people the peace of mind in our firm, in our experience to know that there's a steady hand on the tiller, always paving a path forward, albeit through a lot of times choppy waters, market volatility, difficult times in the world, geopolitical events but to know that there's someone, an expert, who is guiding us in our best interest. That is absolutely critical, the most important thing that you could ask for in an advisor critical the most important thing that you could ask for in an advisor.

Speaker 2:

The second thing I would ask a prospective advisor is do you observe the principles of evidence-based investing or are you an active manager?

Speaker 2:

In other words are you governing your decisions based upon data, based upon what we call the science of capital markets 200 years of evidence-based, time-tested data is also critical to understand what is driving the portfolio decisions. And then I would say the third thing that you really need to understand is how is your advisor getting compensated? How do they make their money? And there should be a very clear, concise understanding as to how the advisor gets paid. You'd be surprised. It's, more often than not, our prospective clients I would say nine out of 10 prospective clients do not know at all or do not have an accurate picture of how the advisor is getting paid and do not get a full answer. Do not get an accurate answer. But I'll give you one example. Very often someone will ask their advisor that they've been at in one of the broker dealers or the Wall Street wire houses what's your fee, what's your advisory fee? And the advisor will say 1%. But they're not including the other layers, the other components of what's the all in cost of managing their money, their internal costs of the funds, which are very often filled with various commissions and what's called expense ratios, and that, in our minds, is a cost. And then the other component that is completely ignored is the tax implications. What's the tax ramifications? Very often, when you look underneath the hood, a lot of the activity that is going on in these actively managed portfolios is generating consistently a high level of tax liability. So that's crucial to understand what is the soup to nuts cost of working with your advisor.

Speaker 2:

Three layers of fees, the advisory fees, the implementation of the investments and the tax costs. Those are really the three layers. And the truth is, if the answer to any one of those questions the advisor himself doesn't know so, then you really get the hell out of it and it's funny. But as funny as it is, it's sad you are in an industry that are. They're fantastic salesmen and they specialize in golfing and going to sports games with their clients and whining and dining. But the second it comes to actually being data centric. Our team is built of a bunch of CFAs and CPAs number crunchers. We don't have anyone who's spending time on the golf courses and that's really who you want to be working with and make sure that your advisor is surrounding himself with a team of evidence-based investing.

Speaker 1:

Final question so for someone listening to this conversation and they want to either get a copy of your book or they want to reach out to you directly, what are the best ways for them to do so?

Speaker 2:

I'm extremely proud to give out my direct cell phone number. My number is 702-371-2547. I'll even say that again 702-371-2547. One of the ways that I decided very early on is how I try to differentiate myself and my team is that there's none of this business of hey. Here's my Calendly link call my secretary on Monday morning. You could call me, you could text me. Of course, my email is SW as in Chewy Wine at rvwwealthcom. That's SW at RVW, as in Rip Van Winkle wealthcom.

Speaker 1:

And then for the book. What's the best way for them to get a copy of the book?

Speaker 2:

So the book is available on Amazon and thankfully we've had a lot of success there. That's why it's amazoncom bestselling. That's right. You can gain direct access, actually for free, the ebook and the audio book version on worry free wealth bookcom that's worryfreewealthbookcom you could gain instant free access to the ebook, to the audio book and, of course, on Amazon worryfreewealth chewy wine, you could get the hardcover, the softcover, the paperback, the audio book and the Kindle version as well.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. This has been awesome talking to you today. I've really enjoyed the conversation. I've written down a few nuggets and I appreciate your time today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, paul. I appreciate you and I know how influential you are in the world and the advisor community, so really appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, my pleasure, all right. Bye for now.