The Influential Advisor

076: Intentional Legacy: Aligning Wealth and Values Across Generations

• Paul G. McManus

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This episode features an in-depth conversation with Morgan Nichols and Kelly Bays, financial advisors at Ameriprise and co-authors of the new book "Intentional Legacy." The discussion explores how legacy isn't something you plan for at the end of life, but something you live every day through your financial decisions, family interactions, and the values you demonstrate and pass on to future generations.

Guest Information

  • Morgan Nichols: Financial advisor at Ameriprise for 10 years, comes from a family of financial advisors
  • Kelly Bays: Financial advisor at Ameriprise for 19 years, joined the profession after discovering her passion for teaching others about finances

Key Topics Discussed

1. What is Intentional Legacy?

  • Legacy isn't just what you leave behind when you're gone
  • It's how you teach children about money, balance enjoying today while preparing for tomorrow
  • It's the values that guide your everyday financial decisions

2. Aligning Financial Decisions with Personal Values

  • Both advisors help clients identify their top five personal values
  • They customize financial plans based on these values rather than using a "cookie-cutter" approach
  • Example: Creating flexibility for a client who values adventure over traditional retirement

3. Value Exercises with Clients

  • Use card exercises to help clients identify and prioritize their personal values
  • Help couples discover where their values align and differ
  • Create financial plans that honor these values for both today and tomorrow

4. Teaching Children About Money

  • Morgan's experience earning an allowance with chore charts
  • Kelly's experience with the three-jar approach (quick cash, long-term savings, "taxes" for family vacations)
  • Importance of being intentional about teaching financial lessons, regardless of method

5. Breaking the Three-Generation Wealth Cycle

  • First generation builds wealth
  • Second generation enjoys the wealth
  • Third generation squanders the wealth
  • How to break this cycle through communication and value-sharing

6. The Sandwich Generation

  • Strategies for those supporting both aging parents and children simultaneously
  • Importance of self-care and avoiding burnout
  • Delegating the "mental load" across siblings or family members
  • Creating clear plans with parents about care preferences before crisis moments

7. Wealth as an Amplifier

  • Money doesn't change who you are fundamentally—it amplifies existing traits
  • Reframing money as a tool rather than a goal
  • How greater wealth can allow naturally generous people to increase their impact

8. Emotional Aspects of Retirement

  • Planning beyond the numbers to address the emotional transition
  • The importance of "retiring to something" rather than just away from work
  • Replacing the purpose, social connections, and sense of accomplishment that work provides

Closing Thoughts

The authors emphasize that creating an intentional legacy isn't just for end-of-life planning—it's about making mindful choices throughout your life journey. Their book aims to help readers make financial decisions that align with their core values, creating meaningful impact for themselves and future generations.

Where to Find the Book

The book "Intentional Legacy" is available at IntentionalLegacyBook.com

Support the show

Speaker 1:

What if your financial decisions today could shape not just your future but create ripples of impact for generations to come? What if the way you talk about money with your children or handle financial challenges could become their blueprint for success? These aren't just end-of-life considerations. They're questions that matter right now, whether you're in your 30s building a career, your 40s raising a family, or your 60s planning your next chapter. Yet traditional financial planning rarely addresses these deeper dimensions.

Speaker 1:

Meet Morgan Nichols and Kelly Bays, authors of the groundbreaking book Intentional Legacy. What sets their new book apart is their transformative perspective. That legacy isn't something you plan for at the end of life. It's something you live right now. Your legacy isn't just what you leave behind when you're gone, they argue. It's in how you teach your children about money over the dinner table. It's in how you balance enjoying today while preparing for tomorrow. It's in the values that guide your financial decisions every single day.

Speaker 1:

In this conversation, you'll discover why understanding your top five personal values is the foundation of all financial decisions. How to break the dreaded three-generation cycle where wealth is built, enjoyed then squandered. Three-generation cycle where wealth is built, enjoyed then squandered. Practical strategies for the sandwich generation juggling children and aging parents, without burning out the emotional blind spots of retirement that can derail even the best funded plans. How to ensure your wealth amplifies your true self rather than changing who you are. If you've ever felt that traditional financial advice misses the human element, the values, emotions and relationships that give meaning to wealth, then this conversation is for you. Welcome, morgan and Kelly. So glad to have you guys here today and I'm so excited for you. You literally just got your book in the mail today, correct?

Speaker 2:

We sure did. It's right here.

Speaker 1:

Now I know this has been a bit of a journey. I think it started when we met in May of last year, and here we are. This is where, in my mind, the fun begins and where all that hard work that I know you guys have put into it it starts to bear fruit. So I'm excited to have you today on the podcast to do this author interview with us, and so my first question for you guys is just tell us a little bit about your backgrounds and how you each found your way into financial advising and, morgan, if you'd like to start, Absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

I think I was probably destined to be a financial advisor. I am the first born of two financial advisors, so Apple did not fall far from the tree. I went off to college I thought I was going to do international business. I thought I was headed into the Air Force. I had a few changes that came along the way and when I sat back and said, well, what do I want to do, I realized I really like personal finance and my friends didn't enjoy it quite as much as I did. So I started my career in wholesaling and that was great. I got so much learning, so much of experience. But I realized I wasn't getting to work with individuals and that was really important to me to make a direct impact in people, part of the servant leadership that I learned in school. I can't believe it. It's been 10 years. I joined Ameriprise and I've never looked back. I love being able to work with individuals and with families.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you said that you're the first child, so are your parents financial advisors.

Speaker 2:

My parents are, so I was born with principles out of the gate. I used to do my homework at the conference table and there was a time I earned a dollar an hour helping to do little odd and end tasks at the office. I think they first started giving me a few things to do. I was about eight years old, and then we just built from there.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. Very cool, Kelly. How about you?

Speaker 3:

I had a little bit of a different background. I grew up in a very middle-class family. My mom was a teacher and my dad was in sales and I very much thought I was going to go into teaching. But I took a sales job in college and I loved the freedom, the flexibility, having control of my income, my time and I, similar to Morgan, liked financial budgeting and financial topics and things far more than many of my friends. So as I was teaching my sorority sisters, I decided I think I want to do this but honestly, my only experience with it was what I saw in the movies, you know, wolf of Wall Street and stockbrokers, and I said I don't know if I want to do that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So I went and knocked on doors. I went and knocked on five different companies' doors and said I think I want to do what you do, but I'm not exactly sure. Yeah, and I had a great mentor that took me in, let me intern for him and graduated and started with Ameriprise 19 years ago and it has just been amazing seeing the impact with clients. And I still get to be that teacher. Yeah, I still tease my clients that I'm giving them homework, but I get to teach adults and I get to have that flexibility and I love it.

Speaker 1:

So with that in mind, what inspired you to write your book Intentional Legacy together? So you guys are co-authors of this book. So what inspired you guys? Two-part question what inspired you guys to A write the book together as co-authors and so just kind of share what your relationship is together?

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's funny that the name of the book is Intentional Legacy, because I'm finding this theme of just intentionality across the board, as I think through a lot of this book coming to fruition and just how both Kelly and I lead. Kelly joined LifeBranch and when that happened, we really wanted to make sure we were collaborating our thoughts how we serve our clients. Both of us really want to make sure we're always bringing that best experience to our clients and that they're getting that team approach. So this book became really the passion project behind us, saying, well, kelly, how do you make an impact in this area? And Morgan, how do you make an impact? And how do we bring our minds together to really bring the idea about the benefit of the comprehensive advice that we provide and our passion around making a generational impact. And we found that we were really united in our approach there. But, working together, we were really able to learn a lot about one another.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome, Kelly. Would you add anything?

Speaker 3:

I'm not sure I could say it much better than Morgan just did. We have different strengths and writing the book together was fun. Where she excelled was an area that I was just really fun writing together and talking through the intentionality of our legacy that we want to build with LifeBranch as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, very cool. Okay, who is the ideal reader for your book Intentional Legacy and, more importantly, what insights or takeaways can they expect to get out of it?

Speaker 2:

So I think that this is a book for everyone and it should be shared with everyone's loved ones. So I know that's a really broad audience. But there, if I also think about it, if you're searching for deeper meaning on connecting your finances to your values, if you're just searching for, I say, more in general, right, you've been putting good things in place, but you want to know, is there anything you've missed? What else can we do to make things more comprehensive? I also find there's a lot of people that are trying to balance us planning for the future with, like, what do you do today and how do we make an impact today? That's really what we focused on. This book I also think about. This book is great for other advisors who really want to make sure they're bringing more to their clients and they're collaborating with like-minded advisors. That's something Kelly and I want to continue to do is collaborate with advisors that share our passion, our mindset and our values and want to truly make an impact for their clients.

Speaker 3:

The other person I would say is it can be a little intimidating to meet with a financial advisor, especially, as I mentioned, that was not something that I grew up with, and so this is a really great way to kind of get to know us a little bit before making that call. What is the experience like, and and what? Who are these people? And I think that's also just a really powerful way to see our approach.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and that's what I love about having a book and even doing podcasts like this is that I think it's a scary decision. It's going into a relationship with someone who can have a that you're, that you need to trust, that you want to trust and can have a huge impact on your retirement, which can span decades, and so it's such an important decision. And how do you make that decision effectively? And so just having giving people opportunity to really understand your values and who you are as people, I think fantastic. One of the central themes of your book is the concept of aligning financial decisions with personal values, and so help us understand that. Can you walk us through how you help your clients discover their true financial values?

Speaker 2:

Yes. So you know it's interesting too. You're talking about the amount of trust that clients are putting in their advisor when they work with them. So we're getting at a whole nother deeper level when we start working with our clients to understand their personal values, the financial values. So we really have to start with personal values Really. What are those top things that drive you as a person? And we used filtering that down, really getting to clients top five values to then understand how do we make financial decisions in alignment with those values?

Speaker 2:

I like to think about it. I have a client and this isn't a cookie cutter approach right, really customize our plans to our clients. It's not a one size fits all. So when I work with a client who came to me and I learned one of his top five values was flexibility and he also really loves adventure. So this idea of working in corporate America, grinding hard until the age of 65 and retiring, that really did not provide the flexibility for the adventure, the travels, the exploring that he wants to do, along with the flexibility of life.

Speaker 2:

Now, his job right now does require a commitment, but we really needed to look at if that truly flexibility is important to a lot of people but it's not necessarily one of their top five values. So if it's a top value, how do we create a plan that works, that we still are making sure that financial goals and plans and longevity of assets and everything is still there, going to work, but in a way that that person's going to feel like their life is being lived in the way that that's giving them a sense of purpose? If we just give clients an idea of here's the cookie cutter approach of what you need to do, if it doesn't resonate, they're not going to follow it. So we really want to make sure we can create a plan that meets both the client's financial needs but also their personal needs and helps them feel like they have a life well lived.

Speaker 1:

I think that's such an important point because for someone, maybe someone like myself, until recently I had not been working actively with a financial advisor and I'm just thinking in terms of manage my money, do this, do that, but I'm not thinking, or I wasn't thinking, necessarily in terms of how they can help me and my wife communicate and actually prioritize and actually determine what are those personal values that actually drive us the most. And so I can imagine the benefit that you bring your clients when you actually help them prioritize that and actually, probably in some cases it's actually realized huh, what are our values? And maybe what are our values as a couple? Because, honey, I've never asked you that.

Speaker 2:

Well and that's what we find is, a lot of couples haven't had that conversation and I would say probably you and your spouse have some similar values, but there's probably one or two that are different and that has been that's why we argue all the time.

Speaker 2:

Well, when I did it with my spouse, I realized like I started understanding him at a whole new level and I can appreciate things when I understand it's somebody's top value. So it's a great exercise to do for finances, but it's also great to do just to understand yourself better and understand your loved ones better.

Speaker 1:

And Kelly, I'm going to ask you to expand upon that, and just part of that question that comes to my mind is is how do you help them determine that? I'm just curious about your process, if you're able to share anything about that as well.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Sometimes it's just a conversation of digging a little bit deeper, but we actually do have a values exercise that they can. There's a deck of cards that they kind of break out which ones yes, no, yes, no and then they scale it down. Taking it from 20 to 5 is really hard. It depends on the client. Some of them really want to dig into that cards and others just kind of want to have that conversation and big picture and kind of scale it back from there.

Speaker 3:

The thing is this is a journey. Retirement, financial planning, all of it is a journey. We work with clients all the way from in their 20s, all the way up till past 90. And retirement's not a day. Yes, every client we plan for retirement, but we work with people well past their retirement day because it's the journey that's through it and you're gonna have that legacy and create that legacy at every stage of your life. So if we can help you live intentionally in your finances both today and in future, it doesn't. You don't have that. Oh, why did I save for the future, why I should have lived for today kind of mentality? Because you get to live it intentionally and therefore you get to live it right, the entire journey.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a really interesting point, because I think there's broadly two camps of people, right. There's like, hey, let's just live for today and who knows what's going to happen tomorrow. And then there's the ones that are planning for the future. And how do you really especially if it's a couple right? It's like, how do you balance those two things?

Speaker 3:

And you got to have both. You know you can't put every penny away and save for the what ifs, because what if it doesn't happen? We all know of somebody in that situation. At the same time, what if it does? We have to plan for both, and so if we can help you live intentionally in your values, making decisions that align with that, there's really no regrets.

Speaker 1:

So I'm hearing two words stand out, so legacy and values. And oftentimes when I hear the word legacy, I'm thinking, okay, when I'm on my deathbed and I think, okay, what did I leave behind? And if I have any money remaining, where's it going to go and what are they going to do with that? And at the same time as I hear the word values, I see it really much more as something that you should be intentional and thinking about throughout that whole journey and so just in whatever you want to just help me wrap my head around both of those. So, like a 30 year old, 40 year old, 50 year old, help me understand that the term legacy better in that context. So when they're thinking about legacy, it's not put off until the end of their life, but it's today.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and I was even guilty of that early in my year in my career. We would push. I would push off the legacy conversation with clients until they were late in retirement. We knew that they were going to at this point. We know there's going to be money. We have to do something with it. Now let's have this legacy conversation and I would intentionally push it off, and what I learned is that it shouldn't wait until the end, because it's all about how you live your life today. You are going to leave a legacy when you leave this world, whether you leave it at 20 or 99. You have made an impact, you have made a footprint in this world, so why not make it intentional?

Speaker 2:

Piggybacking on that. I like to think of a story. It's like when you talk about legacy and values. I think that legacy that you leave behind it's what are people going to remember about you and what impact did you leave on the world. And I'll just use a simple example With my family, when I was quite young, I earned an allowance. Right, let's say I was 10 years old and I earned $10.

Speaker 1:

Given or earned.

Speaker 2:

Earned.

Speaker 3:

Oh I absolutely had to earn it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. No there was chore charts and everything, and I could even earn more if I worked hard.

Speaker 1:

So again that right there like how do you?

Speaker 2:

it's probably why I'm an entrepreneur is because I was always given a roadmap into here's option A and option B. But when we earned our allowance early on, I remember being in church and learning that, okay, you need to give 10% back into making the world a better place. I may have been giving $1, but that was a mindset and a value that was being instilled in me by my family early on and I had the values instilled in me and, like you need to save half of your income, or that's what I was being told as a kid, or how do you?

Speaker 2:

bucket things, and I think what I learned from people that have multiple children is different children adapt to some of what's being taught more than others, that every child is different. But you start building lessons, whether it's on saving or it's anything else. When generations look back and you pay it forward and you look at, well, what are you doing and who influenced that? And oh, that came from Grandpa Joe or whoever it ends up being. That is part of the legacy. It's not just the money at the end, it's all the lessons along the way.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a great example. I think that's a terrific example and I think that's something that a parent listening to this definitely probably is thinking. Okay, what I'm imagining most, most parents aren't as intentional. There we go, there's the word right. Aren't as intentional, and so I think what your parents did with you is is fantastic.

Speaker 2:

You aren't as intentional, and so I think what your parents did with you is fantastic. You can start somewhere.

Speaker 1:

It doesn't have to be big, right, it can be little lessons that build upon each other, and that's why I clarify was it earned or was it given? And you're like it was earned, okay, fantastic, and you could actually earn more. And they taught you these really cool lessons, which obviously have had a profound impact on you, very cool.

Speaker 3:

Well, and I will tell you that in many cases both work and that's what we've seen. My allowance and I kind of talk about this in the book but I got an allowance and it was given we got our age every week and we had to split it into three jars One was for quick cash, one was for long-term savings and one was for taxes and the taxes had to go towards our family vacations and long-term, went into our savings account for college. And then the quick cash is we could spend. And yes, there's validity to both sides.

Speaker 3:

But I say that because I think so many times, especially in this society that there's so much information, we get a little paralyzed as parents of like, oh my gosh, we're going to do it wrong, oh my gosh. Honestly, I think it's just about teaching our kids and having conversations about money and getting them used to understanding that when they get money, it's not all theirs right away, we're not taking all of it, but teaching them to make decisions with their money and understanding that, unfortunately, like, there's always a decision to be made Right. So getting that used to it is also a really valuable lesson.

Speaker 1:

How do you guys help your clients with this? Because I can see getting in touch with your own values maybe you and your spouse getting in touch with your values, especially as you're planning your own, say, retirement or savings goals but do you have any methods or do you even coach or advise your clients on how to do these things that you're describing when it comes to their children or maybe their grandchildren?

Speaker 2:

I think that's when we're doing comprehensive planning with our clients and we're starting to pull information together and we're digging in on their values.

Speaker 2:

It's having that conversation that goes a layer deeper to figure out what is most important to them. For example, I'll use family comes up a lot as a top value. Well, for some people that means I want to be physically present with my family and for other people that might mean I just don't want my family to ever want for anything. I want to be able to meet the financial needs. So, having authentic conversations with our clients, finding out their values but also how do they define those values and then building a game plan and seeing sometimes there's values but there's not necessarily enough money to support what they want to do. So it's reframing and prioritizing and that's where we really get into the deeper planning overall to help make sure that our clients get that peace of mind and our kind of our tagline is financial confidence for life. How do we help build that? Through the decisions, and there's sometimes a lot of decisions to be made.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I can imagine.

Speaker 3:

I also would say we encourage multi-generational meetings. I love when the kids are in come to my meetings. We have a little special coloring area for them so that they're there and they're getting to be. They get to see that. That's part of it. From a spouse standpoint, I tease my clients that this may be the only two times a year that you guys talk finances.

Speaker 3:

So let's do it, Even if nothing seems like it's changing. Let's meet and go through it, because that you ask one spouse. Do you guys think you talk about your finances enough? One may be like, oh my gosh, we talk nonstop, and the other is like we never talk about our finances.

Speaker 3:

So it's all about the perspective, but it's really just being that third party helping that conversation. I am a big believer that communication, that open communication, sharing the successes, sharing the screw ups with your kids, with your parents, being that safe environment. I think you should talk to your family about money, because and you don't have to be an expert, you don't have to know it all Maybe the answer is you need a Kelly, you need a Morgan, and that's okay. That's why we do what we do, because it allows for that. It's okay to make mistakes, but it's also okay to ask for help and work with somebody.

Speaker 1:

I find it from personal experience I it just what you said to be so true and amazing how, just in my own case I'm 49 now and I've been married for over 20 years and my wife and I have never really sat down and got into the disgust and planned and got on the same page long-term about values, until we had a chance to work with an advisor who said you guys need to sit down together and we're going to have this conversation together so I can see how much value you bring to your clients through that. Absolutely I love it. So in the book you introduced the concept of simultaneous multi-generational success and I'm going to say that again simultaneous multi-general success. What does that mean?

Speaker 2:

I think some people wonder if that's even possible. Right, there's this idea going back time over time that if you have three generations, you've got the first generation that's worked so hard to earn the money, you've got the second generation that enjoys the fruits of the first generation's labor and then the third generation that squanders that money away. So it's, what's the point? Is the money the next generation or the generation after? Think? There's a reality that generations are sometimes going to see topics differently. I see it within my own family. It could be whether on like viewpoints on college or viewpoints on whatever else it may be. There's different perspectives, perspectives. We're not necessarily going to change the perspectives of each generation, but if we can get to the point of sharing the values and helping younger generations again kind of going back to what we've already been talking about learn lessons early on, hopefully they're better prepared to then be really good stewards of whatever they may inherit down the road.

Speaker 2:

I actually have a client right now. It's really fun. He has a handful of grandchildren and he wants them to understand the importance of long term investing and caring about finances. So each of them have individual accounts. I think there's a handful of company stocks, names. We all know, whether it's technology or Fortune 500 companies that are often in the news, and each of the grandchildren own, let's say, one share of a few of these different companies.

Speaker 2:

okay, well, all of a sudden the client's telling me hey, my grandson was just talking to me and then telling me about the news he saw on so-and-so company and what it's doing is it's when the next generation feels involved and we can get them involved, whether it's watching financial statements or giving back they feel equipped to make sure that, again, that communication makes the assets really last and that there's stewardship from one generation to the next.

Speaker 1:

And I have to ask do you find that in your experience and I don't know if there's an answer to this, but do you find that is it parents or grandparents that are typically more intentional about instilling those values?

Speaker 2:

I think sometimes and Kelly may have another perspective on this but sometimes it takes people until they are grandparents to realize that. Oh my goodness, I want to make sure this gets instilled and I'm going to start with the grandchildren generation. But it varies, it varies. We have many clients who are really starting to think about how can I make an impact with their children. There's also that balance between do I have the ability to help my children? Sometimes it's not until there's grandchildren that they see that there's maybe a little bit of a budget flexibility. But again, it's not all about how much money you have. It's about the values tied to the money and the choices.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it is more grandparents that want to, and I don't think it's a lack of intentionality. I think it's time we're running to gymnastics and track and, oh my gosh, do we have dinner together? And who's taking who where? Don't have that time to sit back like you can when you're older and retired and be like what was important in my life. You don't have that ability to set that time, and so I do think it's the grandparents that that becomes more important for. But, that being said, I will tell you I don't know a single parent that's like I could care less if my kid is financially savvy. We all want it. We just don't have the time to try to think through how to create that and how do I have that conversation and things. I think it's a lot of it. A lot of it is different generations will have different values, the things, and part of it is what we grew up with. Very few of us grew up in the depression era. Even if you grew up really poor, you probably weren't to that level.

Speaker 1:

I had a secondhand iPhone right. It was an iPhone 7. Right right.

Speaker 3:

The problems you had were not to that level. I had to wear a shoe while it had a hole in it, not like I had a pair of shoes, and so part of it was a different lifetime. What we experienced A lot of it is also my husband and I had to go without vacations, go without things. We had to put that money towards things and maybe forego some of the things that we had. But by the time my kids were old enough to remember, they don't remember us having to do that. So because of it it's their perception of things is different.

Speaker 3:

So, teaching that delayed gratification but also not depriving, and that finding that balance between those things, because oftentimes a reason that we see that three generation of build it, spend it, squander, it is because we see that family member that worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, never appreciated it, and so then it goes to the other spectrum and there's that pendulum swing, and so if we can keep that pendulum in between and help the clients like, okay, what can we do? What's important to you and how do we make this money be a tool, great, let's do this. And then it becomes a tool and not a well. Why would you want to do that type of situation.

Speaker 1:

So having that conversation and building in all of those pieces we find really valuable, One of the concepts that you guys bring up in the book, and you have a chapter on this about what's called the sandwich generation, and so you know, this is a person who is both simultaneously helping and supporting their aging parents as well as they have children that they're simultaneously supporting. And what strategies or recommendations do you have for these folks, these parents, who are caught in that sandwich generation?

Speaker 2:

I think when you're caught in the middle, there's so much pressure and there's only so much of one person to go around. So I think, working with a financial advisor through the considerations you're trying to navigate, I'm going to bring it back to understanding top values and figuring out, based on your values, what is feasible, let's say monetarily. What's feasible that you provide what's desired for you to provide? Let's say monetarily, what's feasible that you provide what's desired for you to provide. And if it is monetary, how do you be able to support but also have healthy boundaries around that?

Speaker 2:

I often find when people are stretched in, sometimes this happens at a time where people think they're going to be getting more life flexibility, and then it's a little bit of a surprise and they don't always take as much care of themselves. They don't prioritize the self-care, they don't take personal time and what we see time and time again is that if you're not nurturing yourself and finding that time to carve off, to make sure that you're good, you're going to have some limitations into how you can show up as the best self for helping others If you can afford to hire help, do so, helping others.

Speaker 3:

If you can afford to hire help, do so. Another area is we're often tempted to delegate, and during difficult times, very wonderful intentional people, very wonderful people will have great intentions and say, oh well, let me know what you need and, honestly, during that time we don't really know what we need. And so do what you can to offload and to share the mental load of it. So, if you have multiple siblings, have one person take care of the doctor visits, have one person take care of the home care. Have one person doing this. It will help with the mental load. Otherwise, it's like things are spiraling in your head and it's too much of the mental load. So try not to just delegate tasks. Delegate the mental load as well is a huge area. I also strongly encourage putting together a plan with your parents. What have they put in place? What are their wishes? Do they want to stay home? Do they want to go into a nursing home? Who has that ultimate decision?

Speaker 3:

When that happens, what communication needs to be in place? If the child that's taking the bulk of the care is getting burnt out, who is stepping in? What's that trigger event of like hey, mom, dad, I know you want to stay home and I want to help that, but what's the thing that's going to say it can't be this way anymore? Right, and that way you can guilt-free? No, we talked about this ahead of time. There is not. Mom wanted me to do this and I can't.

Speaker 3:

No, we talked about this ahead of time, this was our plan, this is what we're putting in place and that way it takes the emotion and the guilt out of a very emotional time. So the other thing is have an open communication both now and during the timeframe. Everybody handles stress, grief differently. Oftentimes it's in a way that we would never respond and it can feel very judgmental. You get upset. You should be here more. You should, whatever it may be. You have to have that open communication so that you can continue to talk things through plan. If this happens, we're going to do this and make sure that that mental load is that plan is to take off. Some of that.

Speaker 1:

So there's the concept of wealth as an amplifier and the way that this is, that there's a saying, or people say that if you suddenly become rich, it's going to make you more of who you are, whether that's a really nice person or or the other you know. More of a jerk, more of a nice person, right? So it amplifies. Wealth can amplify your personality and those things. Can you share an example of how you've seen wealth amplify someone's existing values in a positive way?

Speaker 3:

So, growing up in a middle-class family, there was this belief that was subconsciously built into me. I actually don't think anybody ever told it to me directly, but through stories and things you're kind of told that you don't want to be rich because if you have a high power job or you make a lot of money, you're never going to see your kids. You're going to sacrifice all the things that are important to you and you don't want that right. And because of it, I think I feared success almost as much as I feared failure. And it wasn't until I was taught this concept by a business coach of mine that my entire outlook changed. My entire outlook on success changed, and my ability to communicate with clients about wealth changed as well, because money is simply a tool.

Speaker 3:

The dollar amount on a statement is only that, it's just a number. What is the goal of the money? What do you want the money to do for you? Do you want it to give you security? Do you want it to make an impact in the world? Do you want to make a better life for your kids? And focusing on that takes away the love of money and brings in the joy of purpose and seeing clients that give and want and making an impact in their community. When they have more money, they're able to do more of it, and somebody who is a bad parent and ignores their children frankly would do that, whether they had money or not. And yes, we hear the stories of oh, this person became a billionaire and never has spent time with their family, but we never knew who they were before that. And when you actually see that process, you see that it wasn't the money that made that.

Speaker 1:

It just amplified it.

Speaker 3:

And that was such an aha moment of just completely changing the view of how to look at the wealth and what it is. What do you want it to do for?

Speaker 1:

you? Yeah, I think it's fascinating. You see someone today, but is it the money or was it just who they were all along right? So I think just the amplification is just interesting to know.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I think that may have been something that was a desire all along. Again, that's a core to who you are from the beginning. You've just been able to amplify it as you're able to feel like you have the ability to do more, and that's really what we want to get to is money. Doesn't change you.

Speaker 3:

It just really highlights who you are and I would bet that, looking back, even if you couldn't afford to give money, I bet when money was tight, you gave of your time and of what you could in terms of where you added value, and I think that's. We give what we can and sometimes it's at different stages and different things at different stages of life, but if we're somebody that wants to give, we're going to find a way to give, even if it's not monetarily.

Speaker 1:

So now, your approach to retirement planning goes well beyond the numbers as we've been established here. I came into this thinking it's about what my return on investment in my portfolio is going to be, which is, I'm sure, is important, but you've just, throughout this conversation, in your book, you've just shown how much more there is to it, and I really would say just what you bring to the table in terms of being able to work with folks that are absent, having that relationship with someone like yourselves, you wouldn't even imagine what are some emotional aspects of retirement that people often overlook in their planning. Beyond what we've talked about so far, what else do you see as some of those emotional aspects that people sometimes overlook?

Speaker 3:

Everything about financial planning is emotional and we like to pretend like it's just numbers, but the truth of the matter is it's so much more. We are full-time therapists half of the time. One of my clients just retired last year and this market volatility has them understandably nervous. But having that conversation with them about how the fact that we planned for this, we have cash on hand for the next two to three years of cash needs and we have income producing assets that are replenishing that cash bucket.

Speaker 3:

And we have the long-term buckets that, yes, are fluctuating but in good years are flowing that profit down. And we have the long-term buckets that, yes, are fluctuating but in good years are flowing that profit down and in bad years we're not touching them. We have the ability to let that ride and knowing, being able to kind of bring that back and knowing that the client doesn't have to change their lifestyle, it doesn't change their ability to retire and not run out of money, it doesn't change anything from their portfolio when the market's going down like this, Gives them such a peace of mind and if you're just looking at a number standpoint of like, oh nope, we're just going to put this money over here and we're going to let it ride and there's an emotional toll to that. That is terrifying for clients, and so if we can reduce that emotion and know that they are in place, that's a huge factor.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's a lot of emotions. I was talking to a client this past week and the conversation was around the client's spouse and this would be emotional even in good times, and there's more life changes going on so we can't even talk about certain things right now, and so that's our job. It's our job to be level headed. I think when you're talking about retirement and emotions about retirement, change can be emotional. In general, I actually change is always emotional for me and I need time to process it, and then when there's any extra deviations from what's expected, it just really amplifies those emotions.

Speaker 2:

When I work with clients, I want them to understand that this is going to be the first time you retire For most people. Some people retire more than once, but most people retire once, and while it's the first time that they're going through it, this is what we do for a living. We help clients manage that transition and if they didn't have any emotions around it, they would probably be the first client I had ever worked with that did not have emotions around it. This is our job. Our job is to be that level-headed sounding board and again, we are that trusted partner through it all. We do really get to know our clients that holistically, we are there and helping them through. As Kelly's mentioning it, sometimes you feel a little bit like a therapist, but that's part of the role.

Speaker 3:

Another big area of emotions that clients really seem to overlook is the idea of retiring to something. Retirement is so much more than just walking away from your paycheck. Your job creates a social network, a sense of purpose, maybe a sense of accomplishment, things of that sort. And you may live 30 plus years in retirement. In fact nowadays that's pretty common, so most people would say that's a pretty long time. In many cases it's as long as you worked. Where are you going to get that sense of accomplishment, that sense of purpose, that joy, those different things? And there's definitely a transition period going into retirement and keeping that emotional aspect. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon to see a little bout of depression going into retirement for that exact reason. Finding that new normal is this all there is? When you have a better plan of what you're going to do in retirement, that transition goes from that really volatile market to that incline which is easier to manage.

Speaker 1:

I can imagine that most people hire a financial advisor and come to you for the finances to start with. But just as you're talking, I'm wondering as you're working with people, do you find that they're actually in better shape to retire financially and possibly less prepared to really appreciate and anticipate what it means to retire and no longer have work or that purpose that they've had up until now?

Speaker 3:

Yep, absolutely. A lot of times it's even a conversation of do you want to retire in the middle of winter? I'm in the Chicagoland area. It's pretty cold and dreary here, so if you're somebody that wants to be outdoors all the time, you may not want to retire in the middle of winter. You may want to wait till it's summer and you can enjoy it and have that transition. Sometimes it's a matter of going from working 80 hours a week to nothing, but it's like hitting a brick wall. Can we scale that and that way you build into that, yeah, so this has been, for me, a fascinating interview.

Speaker 1:

I hope our audience is enjoying it, and it just goes to show that there's so much more to financial planning than simply the numbers. The numbers are important, but there's so much more that goes into it. You guys have done an excellent job in articulating a lot of those things. I really have enjoyed this conversation today. If your readers of your book were to take away one message from the book Intentional Legacy, what's that one lesson or that one aha moment that you hope that they take away?

Speaker 2:

I think, as we've talked about this, the word I'm actually a little cautious on the word legacy, because I do think it makes people think about end of life, right 70s, 80s, 90s, estate planning, whatever it may be. But we really want this to be a consideration, something you should think about as early as I would say we're 30s, like that's the time you start getting really grounded. But the idea is a legacy. It's not just what you leave at the end, it's the choices along the way, it's the values you're building. This is something that, if we can have meaningful conversation and build a game plan that yes, it is intentional it really makes a difference. We never know how long our life is going to be. We don't know the curve balls that we're going to have, but if we can be really thoughtful, it can make all the difference. It can make the difference for you, your family, the future generations, and that the legacy it's not just dollars, it is the values, it's the lessons, and we might as well start that right away.

Speaker 1:

As we start to wrap up, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think is important to this conversation?

Speaker 2:

I would. Just it's that idea of okay so financial planning, financial advisor again, people think about their account statements and did I beat a certain index or how did that go? But really, when we're being intentional, when we're doing comprehensive financial planning, we're not just wrapping our arms around how much have you saved in your 401k this year? We're wrapping our lives or our arms around our clients' whole financial situations, often really deeply, getting to know them and their families and that holistic advice. There's a lot of decisions in life and what we really like to do is a phrase used in the book but really lift that quote fog of uncertainty. How can we live in a way that we're helping and partnering alongside you so you can go live the life you want to live and you don't have to have the uncertainty of am I doing enough? Have I planned? Let's make sure that we're doing what we need to and go enjoy, live your life. Don't make this something that you dwell on more than needed. I also like to add this has just been such a fun experience for me and it's been so rewarding, just as Kelly and I have deepened our relationship as a team, really believe in that team approach and writing this book together. We had a lot of fun.

Speaker 2:

We actually were supposed to be at a conference and all of a sudden the hurricane started hitting Florida and we had to cancel our flight last minute. We decided, you know what, let's go hunker down in a hotel in Fort Worth and really put Mind to Matter and work on this, on this book together, on the edits that we were doing, and Kelly quickly learned that Fort Worth and Grapevine or Dallas, they're not all one in the same. Each area has its own flair, but I think it's important. This is something we're really passionate about. We love it. So I just think having a passion project is great and I think, if there's anything that you're passionate about, go find others who share your passion, because working with others that share your focus on excellence and if you can be iron, sharpening iron and bring your minds together, you can create something that's truly great and really grow as a person and grow as a team, and I think that has been one of the most meaningful things I've taken away from this process.

Speaker 2:

And I think combined are just care and love for our clients and ability to make a difference. I really hope shines through with our book, because this is what we're passionate about. This is what gets us up and going in the mornings Amazing.

Speaker 1:

For someone that's with us so far, has been listening and is excited about this message and can't wait to jump into the book. Where can they get a copy of the book?

Speaker 2:

Go to intentionallegacybookcom and that'll take you to our page and you can requesta copy and Kelly and I will make sure you get a copy. We'll reach out to you as a team and really make sure that we can get a copy in your hands.

Speaker 1:

Perfect IntentionalLegacyBookcom. Fantastic, I'm excited. I want to get a copy. I'm going to go there right now and get my copy of the book. Thank you so much for your time today. I've really enjoyed the conversation and it gives me a new appreciation of all the value that you bring to your clients and really the importance of being able to have someone like yourselves, beyond the investments, really as a sounding board, because you've highlighted so many different things that go into this and if I didn't have you guys, who else would I talk to about these things? You definitely have a great message. I love that you put it into a book and I'm looking forward to reading it.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Okay bye for now.